RFI: Interview with Reporter Who First Revealed the CCP's Harvesting Organs from Living Falun Gong Practitioners
(Clearwisdom.net) According to the interview and report from Gu Li, the correspondent of Radio France International (RFI), the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) harvests organs from executed prisoners for profit, which has aroused the international community's broad attention. Le Figaro (France) reported on the 3rd of April that hospitals in China obtain organs from executioners. Le Figaro quoted Chen Zhonghua, a former surgeon at Tongji Hospital in Wuhan City that 99% of organs came from executed prisoners; some executed prisoners still had body temperature when he removed their organs. This Wuhan's surgeon indicated to South China Morning Post (Hongkong) that, it is a very common practice to harvest organs from prisoners' bodies. Everyone closes their eyes and does not care if this has violated human morality.
[Interview record in Chinese omitted]
A report from Le Figaro said that, last month the World Health Organisation said that China is the country where "foreigners can purchase executed prisoners' organs". Le Point (France) reported on March 23 that China is the heaven of organ transplant. Last year several hundred foreigners went to China for kidney transplants. They came from the US, Australia, Japan, England and Israel. The price of a transplant operation for foreigners is ten times more than for Chinese. It is approximately 40,000 to 50,000 Euros for a kidney transplant.
The Washington Times in the US and The New Paper in Singapore recently published a Chinese reporter's testimony one after another. This Chinese reporter had just escaped to the US, and used the pseudonym Jin Zhong. He revealed that a few years ago when he was investigating the situation of SARS, he discovered that several thousand Falun Gong practitioners were imprisoned at the Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine, and their organs were being harvested for sale.
Reuters published a story on March 30 from Geneva saying that Manfred Nowak, United Nations Special Commissioner against Torture, indicated in a press conference that he is launching an investigation, and once this news is proved to be serious and credible, he will officially raise this case to the CCP regime.
On March 28, the spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs denied that the hospital in Sujiatun imprisons Falun Gong practitioners and harvests their organs for sale. AFP published a report from Washington on March 31 and said that the spokesperson for the US State Department indicated that the US hopes the Chinese authorities would launch an investigation regarding this matter rather than just simply making a denial.
The Chinese reporter using the alias Jin Zhong accepted an interview with RFI over the telephone not a long ago. For security considerations, he asked to have his voice altered. The following is a transcript of the interview:
Reporter: How did you discover the facility at Sujiatun in the beginning?
Jin Zhong: It was very accidental. While gathering news and doing an investigation in China, you normally don't have many opportunities. You could often dig some news at mah-jong halls, sauna bath rooms, or dining tables. I got the news from some high level officials in Liaoning province. I obtained it accidentally while communicating with them.
Reporter: have you visited the Thrombosis Hospital?
Jin Zhong: Yes I have visited that hospital.
Reporter: What made you have the suspicion and want to investigate this hospital at that time?
Jin Zhong: I felt the hospital was quite suspicious from many aspects, not only from the Health Department and the Sanitation Bureau of Liaoning Province. The rumours about very large numbers of people imprisoned in the hospital were known by many people, including the inhabitants nearby. People had been sent into the hospital for a very long period of time, a few years, but no there were no signs indicating any person was ever released from the hospital.
Also another point, it is a hospital with a main entrance, but if you try to enter from the rear yard, you will find it to be strictly guarded. Anyone could feel the atmosphere of vigilance. Now there are many photos of the rear yard of the hospital published on the Internet. I have to admit that those who took those photos are very capable and brave. Basically when I was there to do the reporter's job, it was impossible for me to take any photos. I had no way to approach the rear yard, as there were plainclothes policeman to intercept you and not let you pass through. I am now still not sure if those were security guards or plainclothes police.
Reporter: What channels then did you learn from that the harvesting of organs from human bodies, even some from living persons' bodies, was happening in this hospital?
Jin Zhong: From the surgeon who performs the operation.
Reporter: Had you contacted the doctor who performed the operation?
Jin Zhong: Yes, now there is another witness, the wife of a doctor who performed the operation. She definitely was an employee at Sujiatun. Now she has also stepped forward to give her testimony.
Reporter: Had you got in touch with only one doctor or a few doctors?
Jin Zhong: I was in touch with two or three doctors, some of them directly involved in this matter and some indirectly participating.
Reporter: Then can you tell me an original word that the doctor told you?
Jin Zhong: One original word? Do you mean one word the doctor once told me?
Reporter: Right, like, how did he remove organs from person's body, and from a live person?
Jin Zhong: It is difficult for me to repeat the original words all of a sudden. However I felt he conveyed such a meaning. He said, "We removed many organs, after the organs were removed, the person was still alive, not a dead person". Just such a few words, I was very shocked while I heard this news -- the person did not die.
Reporter: It was reported on the Internet that about 6000 people were detained inside the hospital, do you think the number 6000 is credible?
Jin Zhong: I can not say it is 100% accurate, but based on the information I got at that time as well as the witnesses and material evidence that has been exposed from all aspects in the broad daylight now, I think the figure is basically credible, because this figure is not only from my part, but also from many other witnesses and material evidence. Their testimonies also prove the figure I got at that time is basically correct. However, I reckon there are not so many now.
Reporter: You mean the 6000 was the figure of a few years ago, right?
Jin Zhong: That's right.
Reporter: Then who were the most part of those people?
Jin Zhong: Based on my investigation, I feel that most likely they were Falun Gong practitioners, perhaps there were also some ordinary criminals, but I think the majority were Falun Gong practitioners.
Reporter: It is said that you did see the crematorium, did you?
Jin Zhong: Yes, I did.
Reporter: You investigated this matter; tell us what the results were?
Jin Zhong: The crematorium was located in the rear yard of the hospital. Now the photo of the crematorium has been published on the Internet, you can have a look. Recently we got an audio recording of a conversation with farmers who were working in the boiler room of the crematorium. The record indicates that those farmers admitted they burned bodies and obtained very many wristwatches, finger rings and such from the corpses. They then brought those objects out for sale, there is some evidence that can prove this.
Reporter: Did you have a conversation with the farmer?
Jin Zhong: Do you mean the farmer who heated the boiler inside the crematorium?
Jin Zhong: No, I didn't.
Reporter: Then you heard this indirectly.
Jin Zhong: It is not that I heard this indirectly; I just simply have this evidence in hand.
Reporter: What is it?
Jin Zhong: How can I put it? For instance, we can contact them by pretending to purchase wristwatches or f rings, then mention the fact that they worked in the crematorium and could casually obtain many wristwatches and rings, and ask them is that right? They, of course, acknowledged this bluntly, it was the actual situation. However they were also very scared while talking with them, they were afraid of being arrested.
Reporter: Did they reveal how many bodies they burned per day, a few bodies per day or a dozen per day?
Jin Zhong: They did not dare to say this, they were also very scared. I believe their higher authority must have warned them about this. Normally they were not willing to reveal this.
Reporter: As far as you know, after the organs were removed, they would need a way to transfer the removed organs to somewhere else. Where were the organs transferred to? Who was the buyer of the organs?
Jin Zhong: I don't know if you have the knowledge about the situation of transplant operation in China at present. In the year 2004, a program on CCTV explicitly mentioned the fact that in China a kidney transplant operation can be performed in many places, even in the hospitals in small villages or towns. Therefore the circulation channels are very widespread. Those organs were sold to different places, some may be sold to overseas.
What I felt the trick was that, in Shenyang city, those being arranged immediately to do transplant operations were likely from outside areas or overseas, or also possibly transferred from other places to here to accept the transplant operations. I basically felt this was the situation. There were many intermediary companies in Liaoning to make this arrangement. Generally speaking, one needs to wait a long time for an organ to become available--at least a few months. However, arranged by those intermediary companies, you wouldn't need to wait for two or three months. They said two or three months were too long and a big burden for patients who needed the kidney transplant operation. You can come anytime and they can arrange to do the transplant operation when you come. Then you could recover and leave the hospital in two or three weeks.
Reporter: Did you get this news from the hospital or does everybody know this?
Jin Zhong: This news was widely spread on the web. There are also many intermediary companies in Shenyang. This is not a secret anymore, anyone can see this information. There are also many other places such as Shenyang, Dongbei, Dalian, etc., to do this kind of business, not only at Sujiatun
Reporter: Now that you have fled overseas, what are the things that most worry you? Because you are not willing to expose your status, what are you afraid of the most?
Jin Zhong: The most worrisome thing for me is that the news I uncovered will not be able to arouse the international community's response and not be acknowledged by the media. If so, all my efforts will be wasted.
Reporter: Do you feel threatened for your safety now?
Jin Zhong: I felt this; my friend is diligently making money and protecting me.
Reporter: Is there any sign of the threat?
Jin Zhong: Once I felt I had been secretly monitored and tailed. I often receive some threatening calls on my mobile phone.
Reporter: What did they say?
Jin Zhong: They spoke English, and said they will kill me.
Reporter: The accent of the person speaking English is like a Chinese speaking English or a native speaker?
Jin Zhong: That's difficult to tell.
The above describes the investigation on the Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine in Sujiatun by Jin Zhong, a pseudonym of the former Chinese reporter. RFI has not gone to Sujiatun to carry on an on-the-spot investigation, therefore at present we are unable to confirm or deny Mr. Jin Zhong's view.